I am an experienced coder and I want to begin developing (or, maybe even simply maintaining) a mod or two. Now, here are several questions maybe someone out there might be able to answer for me?
For the longest time, I have been PLAYING various versions of Minecraft, never really even thinking about what goes in to creating mods for the version I was running at that time. First, I ran MC v1.6.4 (because of the large number of available mods at the time), then it was v1.7.2 (again, number of mods... - there IS a pattern developing here :-}. I spent quite some time playing 1.7.2 because I thought I would need to give up a large number of my favorite mods if I wished to upgrade; however, upgrade I did! I ran MC 1.7.10 for a while and soon discovered that this particular version had a HUGE number of mods for it! I felt quite satisfied that I had found "the version" for me. Then, quite suddenly, I discovered something about Minecraft 1.8 that made me somewhat surprised - it was FINALLY adding STRING item ids instead of the numeric id form used previously...whah? You mean to tell me that a person simply picked a range of values for the ids they created for their mods' blocks, entities, etc., without knowing if those ids were already being used? Also, in the new id system, the name of the mod was preppended to the text of the item's name, in the form (string) modname:id_name, so rather than an id being something like "197", or even "copper_ore", one would have (for example) "m-ore:copper_ore" as an id. It took until MC v1.8 for this? Seems like a rather obvious shortfall, that needed to be fixed a LOT SOONER than it actually was! So, bully for v1.8!!!
Okay, so here is my problem: it seems that v1.8 finally got that part (the ids) right, and so I switched to MC v1.8, and began looking to replace over 100 mods with newer, 1.8 compatible versions, but MANY (read TONS) were completely missing! You would see that there were versions for 1.6.4, 1.7.2, 1.7.10, and then, for some unfathomable reason, a version for 1.8.9!!! Where was the version for 1.8.0? Why would a mod author simply not bother updating their mod to an obviously better version of Minecraft, when it became available? Why wait through v1.8.0. then 1.8.1, then 1`.8.2, and so on? When and WHY did they know that when v1.8.9 was finally released, that is was time to port or upgrade? How did they know that v1.8.0 was inadequate for the task? Or was it actually inadequate; I mean, what exactly was WRONG with it, if not?
Now, I would listen to any and all that have an opinion on this subject (heck, even send email(s) if this forum doesn't allow space for such a discussion, or if this forum isn't appropriate for said discussion), but I really need to know: a) How do mod authors determine whether or not to upgrade / port their mod(s) to a newer version of MC / Forge, and b) why would they choose not to? Where do they find out exactly what works BETTER in the newer version of Minecraft / Forge, and what sorely lacks, and requires much more work? Because, darn it, if I'm going to begin writing a mod at all, I want to know that I'm not "wasting my time", because the current version(s) of MC and / or Forge are "crap", for example? I'll wish I hadn't bothered, and waited for another, better version!
I'd rather avoid that, as you modders out there can probably understand!
But, if that isn't the case, then tell me: why did SO MANY mod authors never upgrade or port their mods from 1.7.2 / 1.7.10 to 1.8.0 or newer? Those newer versions of Minecraft were obviously "better", simply by having named string ids instead of numeric ids randomly selected by that mods author? If for no other reason, I would have preferred the 1.8.0 platform to the previous ones (no more id conflicts :-} ). And, for those authors that DID finally port to the v1.8.x series, why did they specifically target MC v1.8.9 of all versions? They skipped over ALL other 1.8.x incarnations altogether!?
So, what gives? When does a person ever know that THIS version of Minecraft is the one to begin writing the next great mod for? There is obviously a lot of time and effort required in developing even "simple" mods, so you don't want to begin all willy-nilly, right?
Somebody help a guy out! A little insight into this seemingly crazy situation would surely go a long way for me! Any pointers will be graciously appreciated...thanks in advance!
so... i will start at the top. first of all, we didn't use IDs back in 1.7.10. we had a pretty stable system where the mod author gave an unlocalized name to his item and forge would automatically assign it to a free ID.
with 1.8, severe changes were being made, so updating "easily" (copy-paste and correct some import paths) wasn't possible any more. as a consequence, many of the more complicated mods took a long time to update or didn't update at all, since their owners didn't have the time for such a huge update. some mods even needed a complete rewrite. 1.7.10 remained a big mark for the modding community, since most older mods and therefor a lot of modpacks were running it. think of it like a reservoir, the majority of mod got stuck there for some time (or forever) due to the dam.
now it seems like the modded community is setting up at the 1.10 versions, on the one hand because it's a simple update from 1.9 (in fact, most 1.9 mods run on 1.10 without any update at all), on the other hand because 1.11 took some time to come out after everyone updated to 1.10.
i as a modder would recommend to either stick to 1.7.10 (great for nostalgic players), or, my preferation, to directly develop on 1.10. if 1.11 and the follow up versions provide an easy update again (similiar to 1.9 -> 1.10), then you won't have problems going with the stream, if bigger changes to the codes will be made, you will have this reservoir-effect again. to conclude it, if you develop on the latest versions, you're on the safe spot.
So, the mod authors weren't "assigning" ids to their mods, Forge was? Now that makes total sense; as a modder, how could you even begin to simply "pick" a range of ids, hoping against the odds that nobody else out there would choose the same ones?
So, to answer my question, at the 1.10 mark, all is well, and mods written for THAT version of MC / Forge should be "easily" ported to the later versions, have I got that right? That is good to hear! Finally, I know where to begin...
I really felt like I was trying to learn to swim by jumping in to water I not only didn't know the "depth" of, but wasn't even sure if "water" always had the same density everywhere, so that learning to swim HERE would actually even translate to swimming "in general" :-} (sorry about the rather sloppy metaphor, but I think you see my point?).
When I was learning to program in any one language and particular platform, everything I learned previously was usually applicable to later projects, but this just does not seem to be the case with developing MC mods. You might just need to "scrap everything", and re-learn from scratch :-{ Hopefully, that's no longer the case, eh?
One final question, if you would be so kind? Would you move up from 1.7.10, for the benefits inherent in 1.8.0? Speaking only as a MOD USER, of course (I already know where most stand on the mod development front, now!)? I just LOVE tooltips, and string ids; I was always trying to figure out what mod brought which items with it, and there wasn't much available for help in that regard :-{ It doesn't require a genius to recognize that "cfm:birch_chair" is just BETTER than some randomly assigned numeric value, along with the name "birch_chair" as a verbal id...
I really feel that not having this very aspect is a deal-breaker for me and MC v1.7.10 or earlier; I don't want to "go back" anymore!
i gotta admit i play my magic pack on 1.7.10, but mainly because i'm too lazy to upgrade. as a mod user building a new pack to play, i would go for 1.10.2, which already has a lot of mods available (as mentioned, easy update from 1.9) and also some new mods which don't exist on 1.7.10.
the "main" technic mods are all updated to 1.10.2 already, and it seems like the modding community is "setting up there", as someone else said.
only thing that is definitely missing is buidlcraft and therefor a decent quarry/autominer. but the benefits are on 1.10.2's side. and btw, this would also solve your conduit problem.
cheers!
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Hello everyone!
I am an experienced coder and I want to begin developing (or, maybe even simply maintaining) a mod or two. Now, here are several questions maybe someone out there might be able to answer for me?
For the longest time, I have been PLAYING various versions of Minecraft, never really even thinking about what goes in to creating mods for the version I was running at that time. First, I ran MC v1.6.4 (because of the large number of available mods at the time), then it was v1.7.2 (again, number of mods... - there IS a pattern developing here :-}. I spent quite some time playing 1.7.2 because I thought I would need to give up a large number of my favorite mods if I wished to upgrade; however, upgrade I did! I ran MC 1.7.10 for a while and soon discovered that this particular version had a HUGE number of mods for it! I felt quite satisfied that I had found "the version" for me. Then, quite suddenly, I discovered something about Minecraft 1.8 that made me somewhat surprised - it was FINALLY adding STRING item ids instead of the numeric id form used previously...whah? You mean to tell me that a person simply picked a range of values for the ids they created for their mods' blocks, entities, etc., without knowing if those ids were already being used? Also, in the new id system, the name of the mod was preppended to the text of the item's name, in the form (string) modname:id_name, so rather than an id being something like "197", or even "copper_ore", one would have (for example) "m-ore:copper_ore" as an id. It took until MC v1.8 for this? Seems like a rather obvious shortfall, that needed to be fixed a LOT SOONER than it actually was! So, bully for v1.8!!!
Okay, so here is my problem: it seems that v1.8 finally got that part (the ids) right, and so I switched to MC v1.8, and began looking to replace over 100 mods with newer, 1.8 compatible versions, but MANY (read TONS) were completely missing! You would see that there were versions for 1.6.4, 1.7.2, 1.7.10, and then, for some unfathomable reason, a version for 1.8.9!!! Where was the version for 1.8.0? Why would a mod author simply not bother updating their mod to an obviously better version of Minecraft, when it became available? Why wait through v1.8.0. then 1.8.1, then 1`.8.2, and so on? When and WHY did they know that when v1.8.9 was finally released, that is was time to port or upgrade? How did they know that v1.8.0 was inadequate for the task? Or was it actually inadequate; I mean, what exactly was WRONG with it, if not?
Now, I would listen to any and all that have an opinion on this subject (heck, even send email(s) if this forum doesn't allow space for such a discussion, or if this forum isn't appropriate for said discussion), but I really need to know: a) How do mod authors determine whether or not to upgrade / port their mod(s) to a newer version of MC / Forge, and b) why would they choose not to? Where do they find out exactly what works BETTER in the newer version of Minecraft / Forge, and what sorely lacks, and requires much more work? Because, darn it, if I'm going to begin writing a mod at all, I want to know that I'm not "wasting my time", because the current version(s) of MC and / or Forge are "crap", for example? I'll wish I hadn't bothered, and waited for another, better version!
I'd rather avoid that, as you modders out there can probably understand!
But, if that isn't the case, then tell me: why did SO MANY mod authors never upgrade or port their mods from 1.7.2 / 1.7.10 to 1.8.0 or newer? Those newer versions of Minecraft were obviously "better", simply by having named string ids instead of numeric ids randomly selected by that mods author? If for no other reason, I would have preferred the 1.8.0 platform to the previous ones (no more id conflicts :-} ). And, for those authors that DID finally port to the v1.8.x series, why did they specifically target MC v1.8.9 of all versions? They skipped over ALL other 1.8.x incarnations altogether!?
So, what gives? When does a person ever know that THIS version of Minecraft is the one to begin writing the next great mod for? There is obviously a lot of time and effort required in developing even "simple" mods, so you don't want to begin all willy-nilly, right?
Somebody help a guy out! A little insight into this seemingly crazy situation would surely go a long way for me! Any pointers will be graciously appreciated...thanks in advance!
so... i will start at the top. first of all, we didn't use IDs back in 1.7.10. we had a pretty stable system where the mod author gave an unlocalized name to his item and forge would automatically assign it to a free ID.
with 1.8, severe changes were being made, so updating "easily" (copy-paste and correct some import paths) wasn't possible any more. as a consequence, many of the more complicated mods took a long time to update or didn't update at all, since their owners didn't have the time for such a huge update. some mods even needed a complete rewrite. 1.7.10 remained a big mark for the modding community, since most older mods and therefor a lot of modpacks were running it. think of it like a reservoir, the majority of mod got stuck there for some time (or forever) due to the dam.
now it seems like the modded community is setting up at the 1.10 versions, on the one hand because it's a simple update from 1.9 (in fact, most 1.9 mods run on 1.10 without any update at all), on the other hand because 1.11 took some time to come out after everyone updated to 1.10.
i as a modder would recommend to either stick to 1.7.10 (great for nostalgic players), or, my preferation, to directly develop on 1.10. if 1.11 and the follow up versions provide an easy update again (similiar to 1.9 -> 1.10), then you won't have problems going with the stream, if bigger changes to the codes will be made, you will have this reservoir-effect again. to conclude it, if you develop on the latest versions, you're on the safe spot.
+MCOfficer: Well, that explains a LOT!
So, the mod authors weren't "assigning" ids to their mods, Forge was? Now that makes total sense; as a modder, how could you even begin to simply "pick" a range of ids, hoping against the odds that nobody else out there would choose the same ones?
So, to answer my question, at the 1.10 mark, all is well, and mods written for THAT version of MC / Forge should be "easily" ported to the later versions, have I got that right? That is good to hear! Finally, I know where to begin...
I really felt like I was trying to learn to swim by jumping in to water I not only didn't know the "depth" of, but wasn't even sure if "water" always had the same density everywhere, so that learning to swim HERE would actually even translate to swimming "in general" :-} (sorry about the rather sloppy metaphor, but I think you see my point?).
When I was learning to program in any one language and particular platform, everything I learned previously was usually applicable to later projects, but this just does not seem to be the case with developing MC mods. You might just need to "scrap everything", and re-learn from scratch :-{ Hopefully, that's no longer the case, eh?
One final question, if you would be so kind? Would you move up from 1.7.10, for the benefits inherent in 1.8.0? Speaking only as a MOD USER, of course (I already know where most stand on the mod development front, now!)? I just LOVE tooltips, and string ids; I was always trying to figure out what mod brought which items with it, and there wasn't much available for help in that regard :-{ It doesn't require a genius to recognize that "cfm:birch_chair" is just BETTER than some randomly assigned numeric value, along with the name "birch_chair" as a verbal id...
I really feel that not having this very aspect is a deal-breaker for me and MC v1.7.10 or earlier; I don't want to "go back" anymore!
Cheers, brother!
i gotta admit i play my magic pack on 1.7.10, but mainly because i'm too lazy to upgrade. as a mod user building a new pack to play, i would go for 1.10.2, which already has a lot of mods available (as mentioned, easy update from 1.9) and also some new mods which don't exist on 1.7.10.
the "main" technic mods are all updated to 1.10.2 already, and it seems like the modding community is "setting up there", as someone else said.
only thing that is definitely missing is buidlcraft and therefor a decent quarry/autominer. but the benefits are on 1.10.2's side. and btw, this would also solve your conduit problem.
cheers!